I was fortunate to be able to talk with J.S. Herbert, one of Studio Gallery’s Fellows and a prolific and thoughtful ceramicist, about a variety of subjects, including creating during lockdown, her connection between art and faith, and stopping to smell the flowers. To view more of J.S. Herbert’s work, feel free to view her artist profile on the Studio Gallery website, visit her website, or follow her on social media (@jceramicsandfinearts on Instagram). Also, she will be participating in an upcoming pop-up ceramics exhibition at Studio Gallery November 14-15, so stay tuned for more information!
Thea: Thank you so much for meeting with me today. I really appreciate it. So first of all, will you describe your background? Where are you from, and how did you come across Studio Gallery?
J.S. Herbert, Eye of the Storm, stoneware, slip, and glaze, 13 x 9 ¼ x 3 inches
J.S. Herbert: Sure. So, my family and I are from Pakistan. We came in 2008 to the United States. And I've been in the DC metro area for over 12 years now. I went to Marymount University with a major undeclared, took a Drawing I class first semester and absolutely loved it, and decided to declare that as my major. So that's where the journey began. Although when I started with the art major, I didn't know that ceramics would be the medium that I'll end up with. I started my grad undergrad program with painting as my concentration. But I actually didn't know about ceramics at that time. And the program didn't even have ceramics classes. But in my sophomore year, the school started a ceramics studio, and they hired a ceramics professor, Joseph Hicks. I took a 3D design class with him in my junior year. He would talk a lot about ceramics because that's his medium. And I was like, ‘Huh, that sounds interesting. I should give it a try.’ So, I took his class of handbuilding in ceramics. I just absolutely fell in love with the medium. I felt like it talked to me on so many different levels. Before I went to Marymount University, I was a science major. Ceramics involves a lot of science, there's a lot of chemical and physical science happening in the process of mixing glazes, even making the object, with whatever you're making, a sculpture or pot, and then firing. So, I thought that was all very interesting. I really like the fact that it's very hands on and, well, all art is hands on, but it's very tactile. And I really enjoyed that part of it. Philosophically it correlates with my philosophy of life and faith. I feel like the clay itself behaves like people in that it becomes what it is taught and guided to become while having a mind and personality of its own. I specifically like to make vessels because, again, that humanistic connection: that we are also like vessels. Depending on what we hold and what comes out of us we can benefit/harm everybody around us. Whatever each vessel is holding is unique.
Thea: That’s beautiful. I really appreciate that interpretation. I especially love how you mentioned a scientific interpretation, but you also mentioned faith. And I think that's a wonderful combination. I think those are two concepts that some people see in contrast, but those are concepts that can also be perceived together. Thank you for sharing that.
Thea: I wanted to specifically ask, just to clarify, are all of your vessels hand built? Or do you use a wheel as well?
J.S. Herbert: So, all my work in that particular show that you helped set up (this would be the 2020 Fellows Show which debuted in July), was mostly hand built and some slip casting. The Zombie Bottles and Zombie Cups, were made with slip casting. So, slip casting is a technique that is used for ceramics. Mostly with that technique, you can make multiples, you make a mold, and then you put liquid clay in it which we call slip. Then you let it sit for a while. The mold is made of plaster and the science is that plaster attracts water so it pulls the clay towards itself. With that, it sucks up all the water and a film of clay gets stuck to it. After letting it set, depending on how thick you want the wall to be, you dump the extra slip out. And you let it sit for a little bit. When it stiffens up to a stage we call leather hard, you open the mold, and pull the piece out. In factories, where they mass produce, pottery, like cups and bowls, this is a very common technique that is used. I do work on the wheel, but handbuilding is my primary medium. I no longer do slip casting because I don't have access to the studio.
J.S. Herbert, Zombie cups, Zombie Bottles, stoneware, slip, and glaze,
5 ¼ x 2 ¾ inches and 8 ½ x 2 inches respectively
Thea: Yeah, I was going to ask about the changes in studio space and process later, because I'm sure this year there's been a lot.
J: We can definitely talk in detail about that.
T: Wonderful. Well, thank you for your explanation. You clearly know a lot about it.
T: So how did you come across Studio Gallery? You've been here since 2018?
J: I honestly didn't know that it existed. After I graduated, one of the art professors at Marymount University, Sarah Hardesty emailed me about the Chirstenberry Fellowship Program emerging artists offered by Studio Gallery. She said that it looked really great, and that I should apply. So, I just did that, and thankfully, I won the award. At that time, Christenberry Fellowship was a one-year award. Last year, Studio Gallery renewed my Fellowship Award so that I could continue to be a part of the Studio Gallery art community. Now they're doing it for two years to really help emerging artists with mentorship and exposure. You need more time to really understand how galleries work. So, my fellowship award ends in October this year, but because this year the gallery has been closed for like half a year Studio Gallery has decided to give me a few more months’ extension so that I can participate in some shows, for which I am thankful.
T: Wonderful. Oh, I'm really glad. Yeah, I'm sure you feel very shortchanged naturally, just because of the nature of this year. But I'm so glad you did get to show earlier this summer, even if there wasn't able to be a ton of traffic in the gallery.
T: So, what has it been like settling in and finding your stride at Studio Gallery specifically, in regards to being your first big foray into a gallery space, and also it being an art collective? Can you speak to that? How do you feel about the art collective model? Have you kind of integrated that into your practice?
J: I knew how to work clay. I learned different techniques, and I knew how to make work. But when I graduated, I was so stressed out about what I was going to do because when you're in an art school, you have a network. Your professors are great, they tell you about stuff, and I'm still in touch with my professors and everything. But at that time, I was nervous that I was going to lose connection with an art community that Marymount had given me. I did not know what I was going to do after graduation for networking. I really wanted to continue to be part of an artists’ community from whom I could learn and get feedback, something that is very important for any emerging artist. Studio Gallery has been really great for that. Not just that it gave me an art community to be a part of but it gave me opportunities to learn from artists who have been making and showing art for a long time. For example, in the meetings, I just listen to them and learned from them. It's really amazing. It's been a great experience. Part of the meetings is listening to other artists, and just listening to their feedback on how they evaluate art. It's not an easy task to evaluate art, because each person is different. Everyone has different aesthetic priorities or preferences. I was able to apply this knowledge of how to assess artwork when I was asked to curate Marymount University’s very first Alumni Exhibition. Yeah, it was really exciting. And the professor who is also in charge of the Marymount gallery, she was very impressed. And I told her that that all comes from my experience at Studio Gallery. I have found Studio Gallery artists to be very kind and helpful--- always willing to have a conversation and answer a lot of questions. I have never had a bad experience with any of the Studio Gallery artists.
T: Yeah, it seems like the atmosphere there is very welcoming. And what I learned from working there this summer is that everyone is so excited to have new artists, because this is a long-standing institution, but there’s also the question of, ‘how are we going to sustain and keep everything fresh and keep things new? And just keep going?’ And I think I think everyone really appreciated your presence and your voice and everyone appreciates each other. So I think that's a fantastic model. And I imagine it would be nice to have one of your first gallery experiences being a collective model. I imagine there's fewer politics when it comes to more business-oriented galleries, perhaps.
T: So how has your art practice evolved over the course of this year? How would you describe your creative process and has it changed just with everything that's going on this year?
J: This year has been a real drag. I don't own a studio. Unfortunately, for clay studios, you need a proper place, you need to get permits, because you're using dangerous chemicals. You're firing at temperatures like 2600 2400 degrees for like half a day, sometimes the whole day, depending on what you're trying to achieve. So unfortunately, I don't have that luxury. I can't afford it right now. So, I rent space at a community studio. It's actually run by our county. And it has been closed since March. And they do not plan to open until January. Depending on how bad COVID is going, it might not even open in January. So, I don't know. I did go to another studio, Alexandria Clay Co-op, for their one-month trial which ended before I could finish my pieces, Soon I will be able to glaze and fire them there actually, and (if all goes well with firing) they will be part of the upcoming SG Ceramics Pop-up Show. But I have been doing something different to satisfy my creative side.
With COVID-19 life just slowed down with everything (especially in the beginning). With the studio closed and nothing else to do except my job, which I have been able to do 100% from home, I would have extra time and I would go out on walks, which is something that I had not done for years because of my busy schedule--- first with school and then my job and art practice. I noticed that every few days, there would be new kinds of flowers blooming, and I took a ton of pictures. If you look at my Instagram page, and go all the way to the bottom, it's all pottery, pottery, pottery, and then a lot of flowers. Flower photography became my creative outlet, while I was deprived of my clay studio. Another creative outlet has been baking and cooking. You can find some pictures of my culinary creations on my Instagram page as well. Cooking and baking is something I really enjoy doing but normally I don’t get the time to do that.
A recent photograph featured on J.S. Herbert’s Instagram
T: That’s wonderful! The DC area has crazy beautiful flowers. My family likes to drive around and look at the azaleas in particular. I feel like that's kind of like a Virginia thing. And it's beautiful. Also, the magnolias!
T: So you taking these photos of flowers, do you feel like that was switching gears completely? Or do you feel like that somehow informed your ceramics practice?
J: No, that was just temporary. I thought that I will go back to some of my 2D creative side and maybe draw or paint. But I guess I didn't really feel that motivated. I just really enjoyed these walks, and taking pictures. I took two photography classes at Marymount, as part of my art degree program. Since then I had not really worked on a photography project, so I really enjoyed it. With so much uncertainty going on with this pandemic, death, and all sorts of political and social ugliness, that was just a nice and pretty outlet. There was so much ugliness going around that it just made me feel like, ‘oh, this is a nice getaway from all the craziness.’
Thea: Yeah, totally. Building on that, I think you alluded to this, but do you have any takeaways from creating during lockdown? Is there something that you think you will carry with you? Or do you see it more as like a really nice time to just do something else, and now you’d like to go back to your regular practice?
J: No, I definitely would like to turn some of those photographs into either drawings or paintings. If you see my ceramics there (on J.S. Herbert’s website), there is no representational drawing or anything on my pieces. It's mostly abstract. So I'm more into texture right now. It might change. But I really like different textures on my vessels. So, I have some inspirations, some ideas for either abstract line marks on my vessels or creating different textures. So yeah, definitely. Flower photography was really fun to do it in the moment to find an escape, so to speak, but there are elements from that escape that you'll see in my work whenever studio opens.
T: Yeah, that's really exciting. And I love the idea of transposing the textures of flowers. Because I mean, if you look at a petal, it's very smooth from afar, but when you look closer, there's so many different lines and pores and things like that. That's really exciting.
T: So, I wanted to ask you, something that really draws me to your work are the textured surfaces, particularly the swirl patterns that you do and I was wondering what was your specific inspiration for that if you had it or maybe it just came to you?
J: Which ones? I do two techniques. One is brushwork and one is carving.
T: Feel free to talk about both of them if you feel inclined.
J.S. Herbert, Large Oval Vase, stoneware and glaze
J: So, the first vase (on the website) is an old one, is that this swirl design that you were saying? So it might be obvious or not, but I use dark clay body. It's almost like a dark, chocolaty color. And that's why my brush work comes up so nicely because the dark clay comes through. I, first of all, paint slip on it, white slip. And then I carve by hand, freehand. With carving, the dark clay comes out. That's the simple process. It is really tricky though, because if the clay is too wet, it's all going to be smudgy. And if the clay gets too dry, then carving is first of all, not easy and you can crack the vessel. Clay work is all about timing. So yeah, it's not very difficult. It's just about timing for that particular technique and work.
T: And so how did you come across that practice? Did you have an inspiration, or were you just experimenting?
J: When I took my first hand-building class, my final project for that class was handbuilding large vases. I did this pattern, this circular pattern for a 2D class before the handbuilding class. I really liked it, so I just repeated that. My final project went great and I got a nice grade for it, but I knew the things that I could have done better, so I always wanted to repeat it, and that is what I did with this piece and a few more.
T: Yeah, it seems like in your most recent works, it's really pushed to a very technically advanced degree, I would say, and it's used extremely deliberately. And I love the way it looks personally. I think it's kind of meditative to run throughout the swirls. I appreciate how you use that pattern with carving and brushstrokes as well. Well, thank you for talking a little bit more about that.
T: I wanted to ask: I feel like I'm always online, basically always plugged in and looking at different artworks and media, and I wanted to know, what are some contemporary artists you're really enjoying right now? You can feel free to shout out some of your friends or coworkers, or just maybe people on social media whose work you see and you're like, ‘I really like that.’ And it doesn't necessarily have to be direct inspiration, per se.
Piet Mondrian, Composition B (No.II) with Red, oil on canvas, 1935. Image courtesy of tate.org
J: Yeah, absolutely. So, I'll begin with what will give you an idea of the artists I really like.
Sometimes people ask, like, ‘Oh, that is so different from what you do.’ I’m like, ‘well, it doesn't mean that I can't like other kind of work.’ Piet Mondrian is one of my favorite artists. Some people can’t see the influence in my work and some people can.
T: I personally feel like I can.
J: Yes, my color palette is really simple. That's like right there. Piet Mondrian used a very limited color palette. And that's what I really like. But contemporary artists, I would say, in pottery, I really like my former professor, Joe Hicks’ work, all the ceramics artists at Studio Gallery, Bill Bowser, Chris Corson, Lisa Battle. Each one has their own style and approach.
J.S. Herbert, Elijah. Stoneware and Glaze. 19” x 13”. 2016.
There are so many other potters, there are so many awesome artists. Peter Pincus, he is an awesome potter, and his designs are simple, but complicated at the same time. If you have ever taken a pottery class, if you look at his work, it may seem simple, but once you look at it, you're like, ‘Oh my god, how did you do it?’ He's very creative, absolutely. Very unique work, he does. I'll give you a non-ceramic name. Another art professor from Marymount University, Sarah Hardesty. She does 2D abstract art and installations. I find a lot of similarities in her design approach and mine. I really like Phillip Jackson, who is a British sculpture artist. He has done some of the very popular sculptures for the royal family. Right now, he's doing this collection which is kind of mysterious looking figures, and I'm really into it. I think he's a sculpture genius. Another British name that is coming to mind is of George Underwood. He's a painter. His paintings are also kind of mysterious, (with a) fantastical idea behind…. the first time I saw his show in London it just reminded me of Middle Earth. I’m a huge Tolkien fan, so I really enjoyed looking at his work.
Phillip Jackson, Serenissima, bronze, 98”x 77” x 45,” image courtesy of his website
T: Yeah. That's amazing. Well, thank you so much. So, moving on, when did you first start identifying as an artist, and when you think of yourself as an artist, is that more of like a career thing, or something quite personal, or a combination of the two?
Work by Peter Pincus, photo courtesy of his website
Joe Hicks, Flask, image courtesy of his website
J: So I have always been drawn to art, like from elementary school, but I never thought that I would be doing it professionally. In high school, I was the president of the dramatic society in my school. And I sort of was in charge of the drama society for four years. So I really enjoyed working behind the stage, sort of directing, designing sets and costumes, writing plays and stuff like that. But I never really thought…even though I got really great feedback from the staff at school and other people who came to see the shows. I was into singing, too. But I never thought that I would make that a career. I was a science freak, and I went to science school. For some health reasons, I had to drop out of school. And after that, I tried to go back and things didn't work out. I just took that as a sign that I'm not meant to do science. So that's why I went to Marymount with no idea. I knew that I needed a degree, I just didn't know what to do it in. I took Drawing I, thinking that ‘oh, I, I enjoy art. Let's see what happens.’ And I absolutely loved it. I declared my art as a major in second semester of my freshman year. At that time, I decided that I'm going to do this as a part-time gig. So that's when you can say. It was the 2013 spring semester when I declared art as my major and I wouldn't have declared the major if I wasn't going to use it.
T: Yeah. I mean, also, that's quite early to declare a major. So you must have, like, immediately fell in love and then been quite sure.
J: Yeah, you know how those stories go, about your childhood friend, and you never knew that you actually loved them. And then when you're in your 30s, and you're like, ‘Oh, I didn't realize it. I actually love them.’ So that's the kind of thing that happened.
T: Yeah, art was like the love next door. I love that.
T: So, I looked on your website, and I saw your brief description, which you also mentioned earlier, about the relationship between faith and art. And I think that's really interesting. Would you like to elaborate on that?
George Underwood, Iris, image courtesy of his website
J: Sure, absolutely. I am a Presbyterian Christian by faith. And in the Scriptures, there are a few places where the analogy of clay is used to explain our relationship with God--- like we are clay in his hands, and he turns us into a vessel. So that's where I really think that there's a relationship there. When I say that, symbolically, for me, each vessel of mine represents a person, each vessel is… though I have a plan for it, I shape it, I decide what colors go on it, I decide what design goes on it...but that vessel still has a mind of its own…that I can do all things right, but a vessel can still disappoint. For example, you open the kiln after being fired, and you see an explosion basically, or a crack, a major crack. Then there's nothing you can do about it. Sometimes it's fixable, sometimes not really. I made a vessel and it was so beautiful. The brushwork came out really nice. But there were two, three major cracks in it. I cannot put it in a show, I cannot put it up for sale. So it's like the vessels have a mind of their own.
If you go in my sculptures or projects, on my website under ceramics, my senior project is also there. My topic was Juxtaposition of Predestination and Free Will. In Christianity, they don't go side by side usually. Some denominations say it's all free will. Some say its all predestination, even the bad stuff and everything. I believe that it's a little bit of both, just like in ceramics. In the art of ceramics, I predestine my vessel into being this thing, but it has a mind of its own too. And it can react to what I'm trying for it to be. Especially when you're on a wheel, you start with a ball of clay, you may want to make a cup, but it ends up into a bowl. So that was my senior thesis project.
T: Well, thank you so much for delving into that. I think it's a really fantastic approach to ceramics. To make a literal connection, I think that must be extremely powerful for you to be able to mold your pieces and then have that kind of spiritual sense as well.
J: Yeah, yeah, totally. And if you want more detail, you can read my artist statement for the predestination project.
T: I haven't asked this so far, but what is your day job?
J: I am in healthcare administration. I have been doing that for almost 11 years. I was part time throughout my degree program when I was an undergrad student. But when I graduated, the same job became full time. I work for a physical therapy corporate, and I run their DC branch. We have three clinics, I manage all three.
T: That's really interesting. I feel like your divided work life occupies two different interests and stages of your life. Do you feel like it's sometimes a jarring transition, like, ‘I'm going to go be an artist now’ or is it like you can get stressed out by one and then find relief in the other, and vice versa?
J: I think I'm an artist all the time. That (the healthcare position) was the first job I got when we came to the United States. And I just built on that, because it's best to pick something even if you're going to do it temporarily, and keep doing that. I love interacting with patients and helping them out.
T: Well, thank you. Yeah, I feel like that's a very common experience for being an artist, I would say, to have multiple jobs to support your art practice. So would you say your goal is to eventually become a full time artist? Is that something you feel like working towards at this moment? Are you content with kind of doing both?
J: So, I usually say that if I win $1 million today, and pay off all my debt? I'd buy a house that I can turn the basement into a studio. then I will be a full-time scholar and artist. Because my other two majors were history and political science. My grad degree, God willingly, is going to be in international affairs. I would spend my time either creating artwork, or doing research in history and political science. Being a full-time scholar and an artist---that's my dream. But unfortunately, both don't pay much at all.
T: No, absolutely. And I mean, I'll just say, I think you're able to produce an extremely impressive body of work and still find a lot of joy in the practice, despite it not being full time. So if that works for you, then that's what it is. Because that's life.
J: It is stressful, though. I would say that I don't enjoy making work at times, because I don't have a lot of time. In order to meet deadlines, I have to work very quickly. If you see, I have not moved too far from what I was doing in my undergrad. So, I have really great ideas in my head, but I don't have time to execute them. When there is a show…if you are planning to become an artist, too, my advice is that when there's a show coming and you have only 15 days left, do what you know best. That was the advice that my former professor, Joe Hicks gave me and I live by it too. That is not the time when you should do experimentation. Especially for ceramics, when you're trying new material, you have to test it out first. You just can't make a ton of work and just throw it in the kiln with new stuff on the clay body because it may not turn out well. I actually tried that one time and lost an entire body of work. And when you're in a public studio, you have to wait for the firing cycles, so you just can't do whatever and whenever. At the end of last year, I made a bunch of extra test tiles. I didn't commit for any particular shows for 2020. And my plan was to do a lot of experimentation and get those ideas into works, which didn't happen, unfortunately. But so far, it's fun. It's definitely fun, and I absolutely enjoy doing it. But it gets really stressful too.
T: Yeah. Well, I'm hoping as we're able to re-enter studio spaces that you'll have some more room for experimentation. But I also do really appreciate your pragmatism, because I feel like that's something that's kind of inevitable, but maybe people don't want to talk about it. Like, being an artist is hard. And you're not always in your own head, conceptualizing work at the highest level. It's also like, ‘when am I going to have time to do this? And sometimes I don’t feel like doing it.’ And so I really appreciate your candor.
T: I think we should probably wrap up but I just wanted to ask one more question. I wanted to ask if you have anything that you really recommend in the DC area, whether that be a restaurant, a nice place to explore, or something else.
J.S. Herbert: Even though the life in the DMV is really crazy, I love DC, and I love Arlington. There is so much stuff to do. If I have to say one thing, one unique experience, I would say go and check out Wolf Trap.
Thea: Yeah, I’ve been there! It's kind of strange there, it's like another world. I love it. Well, thank you so much for speaking with me today, I’ve really appreciated the insight into your process and hearing updates on how you’re doing.
From staff contributor Thea Hurwitz